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"...Tom will make them weep and wail."
It is odd that a mathematics teacher from Cambridge would teach me so much as a child. I learned about pornography, racism, masochism,-- and, oh, yes! the joys of doing subtraction problems in base eight. Such was the influence of his records on this precocious ten year old at the time. When my mother brought his record "That Was The Year That Was" home after hearing it in a teacher's training course, I doubt that she was prepared for the number of disquieting question it would generate in me. Was this the genesis of the tumult that would, in a few short years, be codified by a button I would wear on my Nehru jacket reading "Question Authority"? Well, it didn't help.
Though he only really recorded three LP and a few sides in a career that lasted -- at his own behest -- from 1953 to 1965, his influence is still felt today in such Tom-wanna-bes as The Capitol Steps, The Foremen [for whose debut cd Lehrer offered an endorsement], and the god-awful Mark Russell. Only The Foremen has the sense of outrage that made Lehrer's saber wit cut so deep with that glib and oily art. Like Swift -- or any good satirist -- Mr. Lehrer on the surface seems something of a misanthrope, bred, one suspects, from high ideals gone unmet. Oddly though, when I had the timidity to call his home in 1994 he was cordial, bordering on friendly, and willing to talk.
Few artist have ever had the integrity to walk away from fame, but Lehrer did; He said what he had to say and retreated to his hammock. It is hard to imagine just how outrageous such songs as "Smut", "The Old Dope Peddler" and "We Will All Go Together When We Go" were in their day. But in their time, it was still possible to outrage -- remember, respected scientist thought that comic books could kill our young back then. Now, when little girls want to be the next young Madonna without the historic requirement of piety, and little boys want to be trash talking gangstas, is it any wonder that one of Tom's sickest tunes [and funniest], "Poisoning Pigeons In The Park", is a staple of the playground and "Pollution" a warning label on the schoolyard water fountain? Little political satire out-lives its age; yet Tom Lehrer's albums continue to incite and entertain after over three decades. Can Bob Dylan or Phil Ochs' say that? And can they make us laugh as much?
Currently Tom Lehrer has three live cds in release: "Tom Lehrer Revisited" , "An Evening Wasted with..." , and "That Was The Year That Was" . A recording of his stage review "Tomfoolery" was released in 1980 in England. And as the last decade wained, Rhino Records collected the studio versions of his first two albums, added four sides of Mr. Lehrer vocalizing with a full orchestra, and convinced him to finally record the cautionary "I Got It From Agnes". Titled Songs and More Songs by Tom Lehrer, and released in 2000, it is still available wherever fine aluminum siding is sold. It was on the occasion of this release that I again spoke with Mr. Lehrer by phone. This, intermix with earlier interviews and conversations, is what he had to say for himself back then:
>GEO: So what have you been up to since your last album was recorded back in 1965?
]TOM LEHRER: I've been teaching a little and laying down as much as possible. Retired, I guess is the word you'd use.
GEO: I would think that with the political tumult we've had the last twenty-five years you would be chaffing at the bit to put pen to paper.
TOM LEHRER: I guess I don't think that things are so funny anymore. I think more in turns of assassination than satire.
>GEO: I heard you quoted once as blaming Henry Kissinger for your retirement.
TOM LEHRER: What I said was "Political satire became obsolete when Henry Kissinger was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize." And now that the Holderman Diaries have come out it that makes it even more grotesque: he actually prolonged the war. So --- I didn't say that I quit, I just made that as a remark. The idea that I quit because of that just doesn't make any sense at all. The wording has been changed a lot over the years. Mark Russell, for example, in complimenting me quoted it as "Political satire became obsolete when Henry Kissinger won the Nobel Peace Prize." which to me makes a difference. I've seen that misquoted in many ways including books of quotations.
>GEO: Tell us about your childhood.
TOM LEHRER: No. No, no… It was New York City What can I tell ya? >GEO: You were born in New York?
TOM LEHRER: ahuh. It was wonderful then.
>GEO: What were your parents like?
TOM LEHRER: [Laughs] They were very nice. For one thing, they gave me piano lessons in popular music, which was unheard of at the time. I didn't really like classical music. My father was well enough off, even during the depression. He was a necktie manufacture. And during the depression men who couldn't buy a new suit or a new pair of shoes could afford to buy a new necktie. So he thrived. So that meant I could go see all these Broadway shows, and I could buy sheet music and things like that. Who knows what would have happened if I couldn't? And I got to go to a good school so I got to go to Harvard. I didn't go to good schools so I could go to Harvard. Since I went to good schools it was easier to get into Harvard.
>GEO: You were a mathematical prodigy as a child
TOM LEHRER: Well, yeah. I guess if you're good at math you're automatically a prodigy, because it's something you do when you're young. So, I was pretty good at math. But I think the main reason I went into mathematics in college is that there were fewer requirements and no labs.
>GEO: -- the kind of stuff you can do in your hammock.
TOM LEHRER: That's right. -- And no term papers.
>GEO: How did you get started playing the piano and writing your parodies?
TOM LEHRER: I took piano lessons like everybody. I don't know what started it. Danny Kaye had a lot to do with it. I use to pick out his songs from his 78rpm records and learn them on the piano. And Gilbert & Sullivan, and the like. It was Sheldon Harnick's song "Boston Beguine" in New Faces of 1952, that made me say "Hey! There's actually a market for this!"
>GEO: You are obviously well versed in the history of the Broadway Musical.
TOM LEHRER: Well, I don't know about "well versed". I teach a course in musical theater in California, so I know a little bit about that. I've also looked into the question of old comedians and old comic records and comic songs. Old music hall songs
>GEO: Like Sir Harry Lauder, that sort of thing?
TOM LEHRER: Well, yeah. Unfortunately most of those songs aren't funny anymore. But I'm better acquainted with the humorous songs which were in shows: Cole Porter and Ira Gershwin; E. Y. Harbor, Noel Coward, of course.
GEO: I can see a lot of Cole Porter in your rhyming schemes.
TOM LEHRER: Thank you very much. I would like that was the case.
>GEO: I can see a lot of Stephen Sondheim in your work, too. His macabre sense of fun, the delight in word play...
TOM LEHRER: He's certainly the greatest lyricist, I believe, that the English language has ever produced. oh, "I" don't believe it; it's a fact, not opinion! Sondheim has this ability to make everything sound the way one would say them, yet they rhyme and scan. Even Cole Porter sometimes would stretch things. "Under the height of me."
GEO: How long would it take you to write one of your parodies? --oh, Let me re-phrase that, because they are not technically “parodies”.
TOM LEHRER: Oh, but my songs are parodies in the classical sense, if not the modern sense. The literal definition of "parody" is "in the style of". The word "parody", though, has come to mean where you write new lyrics to someone else's music, like Weird Al does. I'm not a very good composer, but what I would try to do is write songs that were in the style of a tango or a march or so on and make it sound original.
>GEO: So, how long would it talk you to write one of your pieces?
TOM LEHRER: That varied. Some times, I would sit right down and do it. For example, in "I Hold Your Hand In Mine", you could see it was a one-joke song and it just zipped right out there. Other times it would sit for weeks waiting for me to get another idea or a way to end it or begin it or for a title.
>GEO: Now the story I've heard was that you would be invited to parties and would sit down at the piano un-encouraged and regale them with tunes. That soon evolved into your stage routine.
TOM LEHRER: Yes. I would do that the way others would put lamp shades on their heads. And there was a certain group of people who would like that. But it never dawned on me that people would pay for it, because even my dearest friends said "Oh, yeah we think its funny-- (you know how elitist everyone is, especially around Harvard) --but the people won't think it's finny." And I felt the same way. But if anybody ever asked me to do it and offered to pay me, I accepted.
>GEO: This summer Rhino Recorders released the studio versions of your first two albums plus a few neat bonus tracks to boot.
TOM LEHRER: Yes. Rhino called and asked me if they could put out the old stuff -- it's the same songs as on the Warners CDs, "Tom Lehrer Revisited" and "An Evening Wasted" -- and I said sure. So I went to my basement and there in an unopened carton postmarked 1957 were the master tapes that RCA had sent back to me when Warner Brothers took over my private pressing operation in 1966. So I sent them off to Rhino and said, "I have nothing to play these on and I hope they're OK" and they were. In fact they sound great for something recorded back in 1953 that's been sitting in my basement for 30 years.
>GEO: Now, the first Lp "Songs of Tom Lehrer" was recorded for literally $15.
TOM LEHRER: That's right. I looked in the yellow pages for a recording studio and there were two in Boston at the time. One was rude to me and one was polite to me so I went with the polite one. I think back on how simple life was back then. It was mono; there was just one microphone; I played the song then they played it back. If I liked it I kept it; if I didn't I re-recorded it. So by the end of the hour, I had a fully edited tape.
>GEO: Now, say for the second album, "An Evening Wasted With Tom Lehrer", how large an audience was that recorded in front of?
TOM LEHRER: That was recorded at Sander's Theater at Harvard, so it was about 1200, something like that. And the hungry i where I did "That Was The Year That Was" could hold only several hundred.
>GEO: When Reprise Records released "Revisited" and "An Evening Wasted" on CD in 1990, they were in fake stereo.
TOM LEHRER: Oh, this is a very sore point with me. I had no idea they had done that until people like Dr Demento would tell me they only used the English version because they didn't have all that terrible fake echo. It was then that I realized that I had never played the stereo versions of the first two lps. So I immediately -- thirty years later -- called Warner Brothers. They have since re-mastered them -- I bought a copy to make certain -- the versions available now have lost that horrible fake echo.
>GEO: You first issued these two records on your own private label.
TOM LEHRER: Yes, again, because it never dawned on me that any record company would want to release them. And I was right. When record companies would hear about my record they would have me send a copy and after they would hear it they would say "Oh, No! We can't release this! By the time I made my third record, "That Was The Year That Was" in 1965, the record company's standards were a little lower. So I said that Warner Brothers could have "That Was The Year That Was" only if they would also take over handling the first two for me. So, then, I could sit back in my hammock and get the checks.
>GEO: Shortly after you began selling your first record by mail order mostly, this guy named Jack Eljan comes along and makes a knock-off of the album!.
TOM LEHRER: What happened there was that I had so little distribution on my own label outside of Boston that this guy in New York who had this little label called Rivoli Music hired this guy Jack Nagel - which is essentially Elgin spelled backwards -- to listen to my songs and record them while imitating me. I tried to stop it, but there's this compulsory licensing deal that says once you've recorded something anybody else can do it by paying you the royalty. And they paid me a little -- just a little token. So when my own recorded got broader distribution, his faded by the wayside. Now it's just a curiosity. But in a way its kind of interesting because he didn't get all the words right. He obviously had to listen to my record many, many times to try and figure out what I was doing. So there are certain things like there's a line in "Dixie" where I say "for paradise, the southland is my nominee”, he says "paradox". And some of the double talk Russian things he messes up. So it was kind of amusing to hear that.
>GEO: Another interesting aside: for years I've been tracking to see who takes credit for the concept of making a musical of Hitler's life. Everybody knows Mel Brooks doing it in "The Producers" as Spring Time For Hitler. Lenny Bruce did a bit on it in the Late Fifties. But I think you did it even earlier -- you mention it just in passing in your introduction on your first album. So that would put it in 1953.
TOM LEHRER: Little did I know that anybody would extend that idea. It was just a one liner. I was searching for the most outrageous idea I could come up with.
>GEO: How extensive were your tours?
TOM LEHRER: Expensive? That wasn't something we had to worry about back then. I'd tell the light guy "put the light on me, then go read a book. When I go off stage follow me with the spot."
>GEO: No, no not "expensive", "extensive".
TOM LEHRER: Oh. I did very few. It depended on someone calling me up and saying, "Would you come to Ann Arbor?" or where ever. And I would say, "Yes!" The I would go home for a few weeks and then the phone would ring again.
>GEO: So basically all you have to do is be asked.
TOM LEHRER: In those days.
>GEO: I'm sure you get asked constantly now.
TOM LEHRER: Oh, I think after 27 years since my last paid performance most people think that I am either dead -- which I encourage, because it cuts down on the junk mail -- or that I am definitely out of it. I don't mind being asked. In fact I love to say "No". "I'm just a boy what can't say 'Yes'."
>GEO: Did it turn out to be a very lucrative for you between 1953 and '65?
TOM LEHRER: It wasn't that lucrative back then because there wasn't that concert circuit back then. Right after I quit came the Kingston Trio and that began the college circuit where you could say to an agent book me for six months. I quit basically in 1960. And then when I had theses songs from the television show I performed at the hungry i for a month so that I could get a record out of it in 1965. And then I did a few European things. My last paid performance was in 1967. And my last unpaid performance was 1972 when I did a little fund raising tour for McGovern.
>GEO: I was surprised to learn that you enlisted in the Army back in 1955.
TOM LEHRER: That's one way of putting it, but probably not the appropriate verb. The point is that they were drafting people up to the age of 35. So I dodged the draft for as long as anybody was shooting at anybody. And then when I realized that I would have to go -- there was really no way out of it except getting an essential full time job, which I didn't really want to do -- I waited until everything was calm and then surrendered to the draft board. I wouldn't call it "enlist". "Enlist" means that you have to spend another year. I allowed myself to be drafted. I was 27 at the time and there were a lot of graduate students who were like me who had gotten deferred as graduate students and now had to pay up. So it was a kind of an odd group there, a lot of educated people in my "outfit", I believe is the word. And we had a lot of fun. So I did that for two years in Washington DC and had a great time -- especially since there was no war -- though vice president Nixon was trying to get us into one in Indo-China even then. So there was that little threat. And there was Suez and a few other little things that looked a little tricky. But it didn't look like there was going to be a real war. So it seemed to be safe to go in. And I'm sure that a lot of my cohort felt the same way.
>GEO: And what did you do?
TOM LEHRER: It was NSA. I think I'm allowed to say that now. I asked around before I surrender to be sure that I would not be in special services or something playing volleyball with the troops in Korea. I wanted to make sure that I got a nice cushy job. We were called "The Chair Borned". And I found out that they were hiring mathematicians. So I arranged to be hired.
>GEO: Do you find that your training as a mathematician influenced your song writing. Writing a song seems to me to be like creating a puzzle.
TOM LEHRER: Not Mathematics itself, but the kind of mind that likes mathematic. Stephen Sondheim has that kind of mind. He was a mathematics major in college, too. Having that kind of a mind, you look for organization, and rhyming, and pattern, and prosody -- all those things that are fun to do in a song, rather than -- which is what a lot of comedy songs are -- just couplets. Working all that out, if not "mathematical", is at least "logical".
>GEO: As a mathematician did you ever make any brilliant discoveries?
TOM LEHRER: Oh,nonono. I have no desire to extend the frontier of human knowledge; retract them, if anything. I like to teach it and I like to think about it, but that's about it.
>GEO: Now I've heard rumors that in some of your mathematics classes you would teach in song.
TOM LEHRER: No that is totally untrue.
>GEO: This is off of the Internet.
TOM LEHRER: Oh! well, excuse me, then it must be true. Now I'm not on-line myself, or whatever you call it, but people send me things off of it now and then. So far there's been nothing libelous, so I've never bothered to contradict them.
>GEO: Your love of musicals seems to come from your parents who would take you to all the Broadway shows when you were young.
TOM LEHRER: Yeah I love musicals. I never thought that someday I would be teaching about them. I did go to as many as I could in New York in those days. The Forties.
>GEO: "The Golden Age."
TOM LEHRER: Yes. The Golden Age goes from Pal Joey to Cabaret. Some people say from Oklahoma to Fiddler On The Roof. But I will extend it a couple of years.
>GEO: Where those that leave Stephen Sondheim?
TOM LEHRER: Ah, but that's not an age, that's just one collection of work, one person, who is certainly the greatest lyricist the world has ever known -- in English, anyway.
>GEO: He was a childhood pal of yours.
TOM LEHRER: I wouldn't say, "pal". We went to the same summer camp and we were on the same swimming team. I've rarely seen him since then. I still have a few incriminating pictures of us from the camp show.
>GEO: That must have been an interesting collaboration.
TOM LEHRER: We were just in the show we didn't write it. It had something to do with pirates, as I recall....
>GEO: Have you ever thought of doing a more extended piece yourself, a new Broadway review, perhaps?
TOM LEHRER: No, I don't have the attention span. Nowadays, it takes years, and then when you're through, and then when it runs two weeks, what have you got? Also it would be a collaborative effort and I've never found anybody who would proceed at my pace. Nowadays, if you want to write a musical, they start booking theater parties for it two years ahead. I would want to work with someone who would have a good time doing it and if it turned out lousy, that would be fine, we still would have had a good time. But professionals don't work that way.
>GEO: Now, you almost beat Stephen Sondheim to the punch when you considered doing a musical version of Sweeney Todd.
TOM LEHRER: Actually a friend of mine, Joe Raposo, who conducted the orchestra for my electric company songs, use to have lunch together now and then and discuss the pallid state of the Broadway music. A local TV station, WGBH said to us, why don’t you make a musical out of this grand guignol production that had just been done about Sweeney Todd, an old fashion melodrama that was quit funny. So we started on it, but soon abandoned it after doing a couple of songs. And then of course, many, many years later, somebody else got the same idea.
>GEO: One of the things I really liked was the idea of casting Jerry Colona in the title role.
>TOM LEHRER: That was their idea, actually. Jerry Colona was a friend of Fred Barchek who was the man at WGBH who proposed it. Jerry Colona was living in retirement in Los Vegas I believe, and it was a great idea! The approach was obviously quite different from Sondheim’s approach I took.
>GEO: Earlier, you worked with Broadway producer Leland Hayward on the American version of television program, "That Was The Week That Was" in 1964-65.
TOM LEHRER: I didn't really work with him. He was the producer of TW3, and I would just send in songs occasionally. I never appeared on the program or even met any of those people. It was all done by mail and phone. It was a live show, of course, and I would never know until right up to the last minute if they were going to use it. I sent in the first few and they would have this terrible person named Nancy Ames sing these songs.
>GEO: Whatever be came of her?
TOM LEHRER: I don't know but I hope it was bad --- not because she was untalented, but, well, never mind --- .
>GEO: Oh, go on, dish!
TOM LEHRER: oh, Well, to give you an example, after all this sort of left wing, liberal stuff that they would do, the first song she recorded after going out on her own was "He Wore The Green Beret" -- and also she owes me money. But apart from that, Mrs. Lincoln, they would assign these songs to her and she didn't seem to have any idea where the jokes were. So then I began sending tapes of myself sing it so she could figure it out. When they would have somebody like Buck Henry or Steve Allen do it, somebody with talent do it, then they would know where the jokes were and they could make it funny. But if you have a robot do it than some of the humor gets lost.
>GEO: George S. Kaufman once said that "Satire is what closes on Saturday night", but TW3 managed to limp along for some 18 months on NBC -- even though it was their lowest rated series.
TOM LEHRER: Well, it wasn't very good, I have to say in all honesty. It was prime time NBC Tv and had to be even handed so it wasn't very sharp. Leland Hayward, the producer, at the beginning said, "we want a show that will be hard hitting, and satiric, and biting. But, on the other hand, we don' want to offend anybody." For the most part it was like those Weekend Up Dates that Chevy Chase would do: reading one liners and then smirk.
>GEO: The songs you had submitted to TW3 made up the bulk of your last album of new material, 1965's "That Was The Year That Was".
TOM LEHRER: I had no idea I was going to record the songs. By the time the show died - deservedly - I had enough material - nine from the show and another five that I had written along the way -- to make another record, That Was the Year That Was. And that program usually managed to cut the best line out of each song, just as a matter of principle, I think. So I wanted to make sure that somewhere on record was the correct version.
>GEO: What songs off of That Was the Year That Was were not on the television show?
TOM LEHRER: Let's see. Well, the Vatican Rag I didn't even bother sending in. Wernher Von Braun was written long before, but I think they did use it. The Folk Song Army wasn't finished in time. And Smut wasn't finished in time. Alma was too specialized a topic.
>GEO: I was surprise to learn that back in the late 50s you are the inventor of the Jell-O Shot.
>TOM LEHRER: (Laughs) Yes, well, when I was in the army we wanted to have a Christmas party in the office. We were stationed on a navel base (don’t ask) and the rule was, no alcoholic beverages on the base. So a friend and I decided to try to come up with some sort of alcoholic solid. But it turned out you couldn’t eat enough of it to get high. So we tried out various kinds of Jell-O mixed with various drinks and settled on orange Jell-O and vodka. And it worked. My friend later told me that she tried lime Jell-O with Daiquiris and that was fine. So, I would recommend that, too.
>GEO: Did you yourself ever run into any censorship problems with any of your records?
TOM LEHRER: There was a chain of department stores in Canada that refused to carry it because of the Vatican Rag. But that was sort of trivial because you could go next store and buy it. Once Channel 13, the public station in New York before the advent of PBS, had a fundraiser that I performed on. It was made up of taped segments that they would rerun periodically of the course of the fund raiser and they suggested that I do the Vatican Rag as one of my songs. So when they ran the tape for the first time they started to get protest which really put them on the spot. It was rather fun to watch. If they stopped showing it, it would show that they were just like all the other networks, and if they continued to show it, it would alienate a lot more potential donors. They asked me what they should do and I said, “I don't care; it's your station”. They did continue to show it. And they did get letters -- mostly, I gather, from parochial schools where the students had been asked to write in by the nuns. So there was no censorship, because they did, in fact, show it. The danger is that most censorship is pre-censorship.
>GEO: Do you still write songs?
TOM LEHRER: Not really. A special occasion now and then. The math department would have a Christmas party, or something, I'd write a song. But it wasn't for public consumption. There was a show put on in San Francisco to celebrate Andrew Wiles' proof of Fermat's last theorem and somebody sang a song I wrote called "There's a Delta For Every Epsilon" so it is on videotape somewhere. But I've never recorded it.
>GEO: They also used your recording of "That's Mathematics" on that tape which you had originally written as a potential theme song for "Square One Tv" in 1985. And you sent in some stuff for Garrison Keeler to use on his radio show "A Pierre Home Companion". Do you remember any of them?
TOM LEHRER: There was one called, "I'm Spending Chanukah in Santa Monica", nothing that really has anything to do with anything.
>GEO: Back in 1967 you performed in a brief promotional film for Dodge automobiles.
TOM LEHRER: Oh, my yes. One thinks these things are really obscure. But now with the Internet and with all these people ferreting around, everything has turned up! I did an industrial film in approximately '67 for Dodge cars for showing to the salesmen. I wrote the songs and performed them on film. I can't imagine that something that was done for an industrial show in 1967 would surface. I was hoping that would disappear, too. Anything that is out that, someone will find.
>GEO: It shows you how hungry people are for your material.
TOM LEHRER: Well, people also like to top one another. "I know this thing that you don't know" and "I have this that you don't have." -- even though it may not be any good. The Dodge thing was actually a lot of fun. The movie Cat Ballou had just come out and the idea was that I would be like Stubby Kaye and Nat King Cole who in that movie would appear from time to time to sing the Ballad of Cat Ballou. So we went out to Arizona and shot this footage.
>GEO: Soon after that you wrote ten songs for "The Electric Company", a series for older kids on PBS from the people who created Sesame Street.
TOM LEHRER: That was in the early Seventies. Now, that was wonderful.
>GEO: On the new Rhino compilation there is a new recording of an old song of yours, "I Got It From Agnes", which you wrote back in 1952.
TOM LEHRER: Yeah, it's a song that's in my songbook and was also in my review "Tomfoolery" that Cameron Mackintosh produced in 1980. I had never recorded that song before. I use to perform it in nightclubs but didn't put it on a record because I didn't want my records to be filed under "party albums" in the record stores. Rhino wondered if we could add that track, so I went into a studio and did it -- partly just to show that I was alive. I was amazed that my voice doesn't seem to have changed that much in 44 years.
>GEO: The only difference is that the piano is better miced.
TOM LEHRER: Yeah. It was done with several mics, and we recorded the piano track separately. We also include on the CD four songs that I recorded with a full orchestra back in 1960. Richard Haymand did the arrangements and conducted the orchestra.
>GEO: I hope someday soon you will decide to take pen back to the piano...
TOM LEHRER: You never can tell. Something terrible might happen and force me back, like the stock market might crash.
>GEO: May I ask how old you are now?
TOM LEHRER: I am Sixty-six -- almost two/thirds of a century! Its amazing: It's been over forty years now since that first album came out. It's been so long that even I've forgotten what some of references are. [I only vaguely remember Sheriff Clark.] So I guess, by George, Lincoln was wrong, as Bob Newhart said: You can fool all of the people all of the time. You just have to keep doing it differently.
It was from these phone interviews that Crazy College produced its One-hour salute to Tom Lehrer, first airing in October of 1997. Another hour is currently in production.
Geo. Stewart is the host of the public radio show "Crazy College", described by some as being "the last refuge of musics odd, silly, or arcane." He is also a book and film reviewer for Rewind magazine and can sometimes be found hiding under his desk at Side Two Productions,  994- 7571.
[copyright 1994 George Stewart]